67 percent of gays will vote for Obama, number is a little low

Per a new Harris/Logo poll, 67% of gays would vote for Obama were the election held today, and 23% would vote for McCain.

Keep in mind that 77% of gays voter for John Kerry in 2004, and 70% voted for Barack Obama in 2008.

So this would appear low.  But according to CNN, John McCain got 27% of the gay vote in 2008 - so Romney's 23% is also a drop (Harris has 7% for other candidats, and 3% "unsure").  Though Harris says they had McCain's gay vote at 23%, so that would mean Romney is where McCain was.

Either way, it's possible we're still seeing some reticence from gays vis-a-vis Obama because of lingering, or leftover, angst from the first several years of the presidency when gays didn't feel their promises were getting the attention they deserved.  I think the President has now done enough to merit our vote.  But I worried back at the beginning that growing negatives are hard to turn around later - it's better to avoid the negatives in the first place.  We need to see more polls, but it might not hurt Team Obama to ramp up the outreach to gay America a little.

From a Harris/Logo poll via the Blade:

The poll found that 67 percent of LGBT respondents will vote for President Obama in November, compared to 48 percent of general voters. More than a fifth of LGBT respondents also said they would consider voting for former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney if he held the same positions on gay rights as the president. Twenty-six percent of LGBT voters also said they are more likely to vote for Republicans if the GOP held the same positions on gay-specific issues as the Democratic Party.

Past numbers, below.

2004 Kerry vs Bush exit poll:

4% of voters were gay
77% voted Kerry
23% voted Bush

2006 US House exit poll:

3% of voters were gay
75% voted Democratic
24% voted Republican

2008 US House exit poll:

3% of voters were gay
80% voted Democratic
19% voted Republican

2008 Obama vs McCain exit poll:

4% of voters were gay
70% voted Obama
27% voted McCain

2010 US House exit poll data:

3% of voters were gay
68% voted Democratic
31% voted Republican

Read the rest of this post...

GOP silent on Dem gay marriage platform

Fascinating. NJ.com:

When Democrats announced that their 2012 platform would include a historic first -- gay marriage written in as a plank -- the reaction from mainstream Republicans was near silence.

There were no statements blasted out from Mitt Romney's campaign. The same was true for the Republican National Committee. Romney has yet to address the fact.

Most Republican Party leaders seem to have lost the stomach for this fight," said Dan Schnur of the Jesse M. Unruh Institute of Politics at the University of Southern California. "Some of that results (from) the number of large-scale donors who support same-sex marriage, some of it's a result in an increasing number of party leaders who support same-sex marriage, and a lot of it is public opinion polling which shows a shift in the way voters feel about same-sex marriage," he added.

It is, Schnur said, "still an issue that motivates the party base, but it motivates the Democratic base, too."

Right, so it's a combination of familiarity with gays and the increasingly knowledge that a gay marriage battle gets our side just as engaged as their side.

The battle isn't over, but I've written about this before - the GOP is increasingly afraid of touching our issues, and that's a good thing. Even if their leadership in Washington is still bashing us in the courts. Read the rest of this post...

Maines support marriage 57-35 percent

Wow.  I'm still leery of all these "hurray!" polls, but still, this is awfully good.  So far... Read the rest of this post...

New poll: We are 10 percent after all, kind of

Here's the thing: The poll show that 5% of Canadians identify as gay or trans. But 10% of Canadian youth identify as gay.

The Forum Research poll, commissioned by the National Post and taken twice in June to confirm its accuracy, found that 5% of Canadians identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender. And contrary to the popular wisdom that the same-sex marriage rate is surprisingly low, the poll found that a third of LGBT people say they are in a same-sex marriage.

Younger Canadians are far more likely to say they are lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender than older Canadians, with 10% of those aged 18 to 34 answering the question with a “yes,” compared to 2% or 3% in the four older age categories.

“My generation didn’t come out until at least university,” said Mr. Rae, 58. “Today, people are coming out in high school, if not grade school.”

And there's the rub. I've always said that if some stranger called me up on the phone and asked if I was gay "for a survey," I'm not sure I'd tell them. And I'm not even in the closet. If 5% are willing to say that they're gay, there most certainly are even more gay and trans people who would refuse to answer, or lie.

But those numbers - of those who refuse to "admit" they're gay or trans - likely are dropping, and the first place you'd expect to see the biggest drop is among today's youth, who are far more accepting of gay and trans folk than their elders.

Thus, it's quite interesting to see 10% of youth saying they're gay or trans.  It might just be a vision of the future, or rather, a clearer, more honest admission of the present. Read the rest of this post...

More polling data suggesting Obama changed minds with gay marriage stance

Interestingly, this poll suggests that black opposition to gay marriage shrunk, though it didn't turn into more support.  Rather, they moved from "against" to "unsure."  Which is still a marked improvement.  Among Latinos, our numbers improved as well.

This poll showed only 41% support for same-sex marriage.  Clearly there's some variation in the recent polls, with many showing supporting in the low 50s.  I'm not entirely sure why the polls are so varied, but still, the low-50s polls aren't complete outliers.  We've seen that number repeated in numerous polls.  All of these polls agree that public opinion is definitely shifting, and it's shifting our way. Read the rest of this post...

The scandal that wasn't

Seems we're becoming the Democratic party's good luck charm.

Public opinion continues to shift in favor of same-sex marriage, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll, which also finds initial signs that President Obama’s support for the idea may have changed a few minds.

Overall, 53 percent of Americans say gay marriage should be legal, hitting a high mark in support while showing a dramatic turnaround from just six years ago, when just 36 percent thought it should be legal. Thirty-nine percent, a new low, say gay marriage should be illegal.

Read the rest of this post...

More evidence that gay marriage announcement didn't hurt Obama

The fact that the President endorsing same-sex marriage has not hurt him one blip in the polls is a huge victory for us.

The conventional wisdom was, as I wrote in my Daily Beast piece last week, that embracing gay rights at the national level didn't benefit Democrats outside of a small constituency, and might actually hurt them at the polls.  Then, over DADT was repealed and nothing happened, and now the President endorses marriage equality and nothing happened.  As I wrote in the piece:

Gay rights switched from being perceived as an albatross around the necks of national Democrats to an issue that could galvanize the party’s base.

Suddenly, Democratic politicians are realizing that there isn't much of a downside, at the national level, for supporting, and following through on, our civil rights.

Here's a new NBC/WSJ poll via First Read:

In the poll, a combined 17 percent say it makes them "much more likely" or "somewhat more likely" they will vote for him. That's compared with a combined 20 percent who say the announcement will make them more likely to vote for Mitt Romney, who opposes gay marriage.

Perhaps more importantly, 62 percent say the president's support for gay marriage doesn't make a difference in their vote -- including 75 percent of independents, 76 percent of moderates, 81 percent of African Americans, and 65 percent of residents in the Midwest.

Read the rest of this post...

No big change in the polls since Obama endorsed marriage equality

And good.

No on expected the polls to soar, while others predicted they would plummet. What we predicted was that Obama would energize his base - which might have already said in previously polls that they'd vote for him, but they might not like it, or give their time and money. Now they will.

What's most interesting is that it doesn't appear from the polls that African-Americans, or anyone else, has deserted the President since the announcement.

All gain, no pain. Read the rest of this post...

Another annoying column with the same-old -- and wrong -- DC conventional wisdom on marriage

The circa 2004 conventional wisdom on marriage appears in the Washington Post column, The Fix, today. Of course, The Fix regurgitates the conventional wisdom on marriage. The Fix is inside baseball and gets to talk directly to "Democratic strategists" -- and, as we all know, Democratic strategists are so amazingly smart that every thing they say should be believed. Even if not much of it is based in reality:

According to Fix interviews with more than half-dozen Democratic strategists, basically nobody in Obama’s party is expecting him to make the switch before the election. And even supporters of gay rights suggest the timing might be wrong.

While many may see it as the right thing to do, they say pulling such a switch would be too difficult this close to an election.

“I don’t expect him to change his position at this point,” said Democratic strategist Joe Trippi. “On the one hand, it would be a welcome surprise for many, and on the other hand, be seen as politically motivated and polarizing to others because of the timing.”

Most Democrats agreed that raising the issue in the context of the election might be counterproductive even for the gay rights movement itself.

And, we all know that more than a half-dozen Democratic strategists can't be wrong. So, thank you, The Fix and Democratic strategists, for telling us what you think. I know this might be a stretch, but I'd encourage The Fix -- and those Democratic Strategists -- to take a fresh look a recent polling.

The Fix alleges that the anti-marriage forces have more intensity. That's not true anymore, as evidenced by last month's Wall Street Journal/NBC News. That poll shows more support for marriage by a 49 - 40 margin (that fact hasn't seem to permeate the minds of the DC insiders yet.) Think Progress dug into the numbers, which show that 32% strongly favor marriage, while 31% strongly oppose it.

So a better question might be what will it do to enthusiasm if Obama says during one of the debates that he still thinks same-sex couples aren't equal. Is it going to get him any right-wing votes. Of course not. But, it's going to be painful to hear for a lot of gay Americans and our allies, particularly those young voters who Jim Messina is assiduously courting.

Last May, Kerry Eleveld and I guest-hosted Mike Signorile's show on Sirius/XM OutQ. One of our guests was polling guru Nate Silver, who had recently published a post titled, "Gay Marriage Opponents Now in Minority." Nate told us that Obama was already behind the trend of public opinion, "It's too late for [Obama] to get ahead of the trend." And, he said that was true for Democrats and Independents.

And, maybe The Fix could step outside of its usual pattern of talking to the same old strategists and interview someone like Dr. Gary Segura. Last month, Segura wrote an important post titled, "Why Latinos are Ahead of Barack Obama on Marriage Equality." Latinos are the fastest growing voting demographic in the country -- and another prime target for Messina and the Obama campaign. But, Gary isn't a DC insider, so his insight might not matter to The Fix. Gary is just a professor at Stanford. Actually, he's Professor of American Politics and Chair of Chicano/a Studies in the Center for Comparative Studies in Race and Ethnicity at Stanford. Gary is also a principal in the polling firm, Latino Decisions. And, he has been an expert witness the major marriage cases, including the Prop. 8 case.

It's always painful to read the same old-CW about gay issues. But, today's column in The Fix appears so out-of-touch, it looks like someone from the Obama campaign choreographed it.

I used to play along with the idea that Obama was evolving. That's gotten old and outdated already. Now, it's clearly a political calculation the White House is making not to announce support marriage. And, I don't like people playing politics with my equality. So, I'm with Mike Signorile now: Obama must come out of the closet on gay marriage. Read the rest of this post...

Evangelicals still oppose inter-racial marriage twice as much as other Americans

God bless em.

The same folks freaking out over gays getting the right to marry also have a problem with blacks marrying whites to the tune of twice as much as the population at large.

Pew's February Political Typology Poll asked people about recent trends in American society. Pew asked if “more people of different races marrying each other” was good or bad society. Overall, only nine percent of Americans said it was bad for society. However, 16 percent of white evangelicals said this, more than twice the opposition found among other Americans (7 percent). The survey found that 27 percent of Americans overall said more interracial marriage was good for society, compared to 17 percent of evangelicals.

Catholics also aren't very fond of the mingling of the races, as compared to polling in the population at large.

It's also interesting to know that when Loving v. VA became the law of the land, three quarters of white Americans opposed inter-racial marriage. Seventy-five percent. And you'd better believe the same arguments were being used then against blacks marrying whites as are being used against gay couples today. Oh the churches!

Wouldn't it be neat if churches were at the forefront of pushing for civil and human rights?  Some are, but not enough.

PS Don't forget that just last year nearly half of Mississippi Republicans still opposes inter-racial marriages.

And remember when they used to the Bible to justify opposition to inter-racial marriages? Read the rest of this post...

Growing number of Maine independents support marriage equality

From ThinkProgress:

A new poll from Public Policy Polling (PPP) finds that support for marriage equality is increasing among independents in Maine, just two years after the state “narrowly voted to overturn a law allowing same sex couples to marry.” Fifty-one percent of voters say they support marriage equality, including 53 percent of independents.

Read the rest of this post...

Poll: People think 1 in 4 Americans are gay

Note how the Economist has fallen for the new numbers we were complaining about just a few months ago, claiming that LGB and T combined are only 3.5% of the population.  We predicted this was going to happen, that the survey would wrongly be interpreted by a lazy media to be saying we're only 3.5% of the population, and lo and behold, here we go.  As I said at the time:

The more I think about it, the more this ticks me off. There is no way you're going to get anywhere near 100% of gay people admitting they're gay, period. I wonder if you get more than 50%.

Married gays, forget it. Dating a girl, forget it. Closeted, forget it. People afraid for their jobs, forget it. Work for the military, forget it. Older gays, less likely. Living in a scary state, or small town, more likely not to admit it. And on and on.

Until one of these studies starts estimating how many gay people are NOT admitting that they're gay to the questioner, these studies per se underestimate our community, significantly I fear, and all the media will do is repeat the low-ball number and say "see, you're not that many after all." And it's all well and good to say "gosh, our civil rights shouldn't be based on how many people we are," but sorry Charlie, numbers matter, especially in politics. These studies continue to hurt us, and they continue to put out these numbers they know are false, and they know will be misquoted against us.

Thanks for nothing.

Read the rest of this post...

And now, Gallup finds majority of Americans support same-sex marriage

Remember how President Obama said of marriage, last October, "The one thing I will say today is I think it’s pretty clear where the trendlines are going." It sure is. And, the trendline os just moving much more quickly than most of us ever imagined. From Gallup:

For the first time in Gallup's tracking of the issue, a majority of Americans (53%) believe same-sex marriage should be recognized by the law as valid, with the same rights as traditional marriages. The increase since last year came exclusively among political independents and Democrats. Republicans' views did not change.

These results are based on Gallup's May 5-8 Values and Beliefs poll, which has tracked attitudes toward legalizing same-sex marriage each year since 2004, adding to Gallup's initial polling on the topic in 1996 and 1999.

This year's nine-point increase in support for same-sex marriage is the largest year-to-year shift yet measured over this time period. Two-thirds of Americans were opposed to legalized same-sex marriage in 1996, with 27% in favor. By 2004, support had risen to 42% and, despite some fluctuations from year to year, stayed at roughly that level through last year.

Now, we need President Obama to get on board with full marriage equality. He's already behind. Evolve already. Read the rest of this post...

Minnesota GOP wants anti-gay amendment on 2012 ballot. Say goodbye to young voters.

Today, the Minnesota State Senate voted to put a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage on the November 2012 ballot by a margin of 38 - 27. Adam Bink monitored the debate and the vote. The House is expected to follow suit.

By this action, Minnesota GOPers, who took control of the House and Senate last November, could be guaranteeing a massive turnout of young voters. And, they've probably sealed their fate with those voters for decades. The GOP wants to be the party of hate and homophobia. That's so 2004. It might work with teabaggers, but rational people, particularly younger voters, want nothing to do with it.

Last month, Nate Silver reported that opponents of marriage are now in the minority -- and the numbers are moving our way, fast:

But Republican candidates, who have placed less emphasis on gay marriage in recent years, probably cannot expect their opposition to it to be a net electoral positive for them except in select circumstances. If support for gay marriage were to continue accelerating as fast as it has in the past two years, supporters would outnumber opponents roughly 56-40 in the general population by November 2012.

We know the opponents of marriage will turn out. They tend to be older voters who show up. Now, young people have a reason to show up.

Via Minnesota Independent, a couple of old polls give a sense of the lay of the land::

A 2009 Star Tribune poll found that only 33 percent of Minnesotans wanted a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage, 35 percent said leave it to the courts, and 25 percent backed legalizing same-sex marriage.

But, as Nate Silver noted, those numbers are changing fast. I didn't see a breakdown by age, but the numbers from the Washington Post poll from Virginia gives a sense of where young people are on the issue:

The survey shows that nearly three-quarters of those ages 18 to 29 say gays should be able to legally wed.

Now, it would help if Obama was actually pro-marriage. But, as we know, he's still "evolving."

You have to think that Obama campaign manager Jim Messina is worried about turning out the youth vote in 2012. The enthusiasm from 2008 no longer exists. But, in Minnesota at least, Republicans may have done Messina a huge favor. Read the rest of this post...

Virginia poll shows growing support for marriage equality: 47% support vs. 43% oppose

Yes, Virginia, there is equality in your future. The state with homophobic leaders like Governor Bob McDonnell and Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli supports marriage. It's not a majority, but it's pretty close. Bottom line is that more Virginians now support marriage than oppose it. From the Washington Post:

Virginians are closely divided over whether gay marriage should be legal, according to a new Washington Post poll, a striking result in a state that overwhelmingly agreed to amend its constitution to ban gay marriage just five years ago.

Forty-seven percent of Virginians say gay couples should be allowed to legally wed, and 43 percent are opposed, according to the poll. Fifty-five percent of Virginians say gay couples should be able to legally adopt children.

The results mirror a dramatic and rapid shift in national public opinion about gay rights in recent years. The evolving public opinion could create a challenge in the key political battleground for the commonwealth’s Republicans, who are almost universally opposed to gay marriage, if voters think the GOP is falling out of sync with the electorate. But the results also present complications for Virginia Democrats, who have moved more slowly than their national counterparts to embrace liberal social stands for fear of alienating independent voters.

Those complications are still playing out at the national level, too.

Look at the demographic breakdown:

The survey shows that nearly three-quarters of those ages 18 to 29 say gays should be able to legally wed. Only 22 percent of those ages 65 and older agree. Between the ages of 30 and 65, residents are split, with 44 percent saying same-sex marriage should be legal and 43 percent saying it should illegal.

This is good. The trendline is definitely moving in the right direction. Read the rest of this post...

Nate Silver finds "Gay Marriage Opponents Now in Minority"

Remember how last October the President said of marriage equality, "The one thing I will say today is I think it’s pretty clear where the trendlines are going."

Well, today, we get further confirmation from Nate Silver that the trendline is, in fact, moving in the right direction on marriage equality:

A poll from CNN this week is the latest to show a majority of Americans in favor of same-sex marriage, with 51 percent saying that marriages between gay and lesbian couples “should be recognized by the law as valid” and 47 percent opposed.

This is the fourth credible poll in the past eight months to show an outright majority of Americans in favor of gay marriage. That represents quite a lot of progress for supporters of same-sex marriage. Prior to last year, there had been just one survey — a Washington Post poll conducted in April 2009 — to show support for gay marriage as the plurality position, and none had shown it with a majority.

As we noted last August, support for gay marriage seems to have been increasing at an accelerated pace over the past couple of years. Below is an update to the graph from last year’s article, which charts the trend from all available public polls on same-sex marriage going back to 1988.

The trendline — derived through regression smoothing — estimates that about 50 percent of Americans now support gay marriage and that 46 percent are opposed, with a small percentage of voters undecided. By contrast, at this time two years ago, the numbers were 42 percent in favor and 53 percent opposed, according to the same technique.

As with much of what Nate writes, read the whole past. He provides some challenges for us and has a warning for anti-gay GOPers.

We are heading in the right direction. That's why Maggie Gallagher, Brian Brown and their fellow homophobes are so frantic. Read the rest of this post...

8m US adults willing to tell a stranger they are gay (LGB)

Keep in mind that these polls entail a stranger calling you up and asking if you're gay, etc. If you live in Mississippi, where Republicans still think blacks shouldn't marry whites, are you really going to tell some stranger on the phone that you're gay, and risk waking up with a horse's head in your bed? Doubtful.

The Williams Institute, a leading think tank dedicated to the field of sexual orientation and gender identity-related law and public policy, released new research that estimates the size of the lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) community in the United States. Drawing on information from four recent national and two state-level population-based surveys, the analyses suggest that there are more than 8 million adults in the US who are lesbian, gay, or bisexual, comprising 3.5% of the adult population. There are also nearly 700,000 transgender individuals in the US. In total, the study suggests that approximately 9 million Americans - roughly the population of New Jersey - identify as LGBT.

UPDATE: The more I think about it, the more this ticks me off. There is no way you're going to get anywhere near 100% of gay people admitting they're gay, period. I wonder if you get more than 50%.

Married gays, forget it. Dating a girl, forget it. Closeted, forget it. People afraid for their jobs, forget it. Work for the military, forget it.  Older gays, less likely.  Living in a scary state, or small town, more likely not to admit it. And on and on.

Until one of these studies starts estimating how many gay people are NOT admitting that they're gay to the questioner, these studies per se underestimate our community, significantly I fear, and all the media will do is repeat the low-ball number and say "see, you're not that many after all." And it's all well and good to say "gosh, our civil rights shouldn't be based on how many people we are," but sorry Charlie, numbers matter, especially in politics.  These studies continue to hurt us, and they continue to put out these numbers they know are false, and they know will be misquoted against us.

Thanks for nothing. Read the rest of this post...

Indiana poll shows opposition to marriage amendment and strong support for non-discrimination

As the Indiana State Senate prepares to consider an anti-marriage constitutional amendment, a new poll in the Hoosier state shows strong opposition to that move. This new poll shows the trendline is clearly moving in our direction -- even in Indiana. From Bil Browning:

A new poll released this morning by Indiana Equality Action shows an overwhelming shift in Hoosier's attitudes about a proposed anti-same-sex marriage amendment. The majority of Indiana residents oppose the amendment and pro-LGBT measures have massive levels of support. The poll surveyed 400 registered voters and has a margin of error of 4.9% with a 95% confidence level.

47% of respondents opposed the marriage amendment while only 43% support it. The poll included more Republican responses than Democrat and showed surprising results; 35% of Republican and 30% of self-identifying conservatives oppose the measure as do 41% of seniors. The poll also found that Hoosiers were much more interested in economic issues than a ban on same-sex marriage or civil unions.

When questioned about their level of support for protections in public accommodations, housing and employment, 65% of respondents favored amending Indiana law to include sexual orientation and gender identity; 28% opposed such a law. Indiana currently does not have these protections in place and the legislature has refused to even debate such a bill.

In January, the Indiana House approved voted the anti-gay amendment. That didn't sit well with Bil Browning. Not at all. He's had it with the hypocrisy of legislators, so asked for tips about the dirty laundry of his state's legislators -- and he got them. Last month, we all met State Representative Jud McMillin.

So, voters are heading our way, Indiana's business community is speaking out against the marriage amendment and some of the anti-gay state legislators are being exposed as real hypocrites. Can't wait to see what the Indiana State Senate does now. Read the rest of this post...

Another national poll now shows majority support for marriage

This is why the anti-marriage forces are so desperate. America is coming our way on marriage -- and it's happening fast. This is the first time the Washington Post/ABC News poll found majority support:

A slim majority of Americans now support gay marriage, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

The results underscore the nation’s increasingly tolerant views about homosexuals, and parallel a string of recent legal and legislative victories for gay rights advocates.

Five years ago, at 36 percent, support for gay marriage barely topped a third of all Americans. Now, 53 percent say gay marriage should be legal, marking the first time in Post-ABC polling that a majority has said so.

“This is very consistent with a lot of other polling data we’ve seen and the general momentum we’ve seen over the past year and a half,” said Evan Wolfson, president of Freedom to Marry, a leading pro-gay-marriage group. “As people have come to understand this is about loving, committed families dealing, like everyone, with tough times, they understand how unfair it is to treat them differently.”

No surprise, but NOM's Brian Brown doesn't like the poll results. He's still clinging to a hope that Americans will remain homophobic. But, the world is changing right before his and Maggie's eyes.

Turns out Barack Obama was right about this when he said on October 27, 2010:

The one thing I will say today is I think it’s pretty clear where the trendlines are going.

It sure is pretty clear. Maybe he should finish evolving and finally get on the right side of history. Read the rest of this post...

Moderate Republicans and Independents overwhelming suport DADT repeal

An interesting message for any Republican who doesn't consider themselves a far-right nut. From Greg Sargent:

The Pew poll finds that Republicans overall are closely divided on DADT repeal, 40-44. But the breakdown of Republicans is striking. It finds that "moderate" and "liberal" Republicans strongly favor repeal, 62-26. The only reason Republicans are closely divided at all is because conservative Republicans oppose it, 28-52.

This becomes even more pronounced when you factor in Republicans and Republican "leaners." It turns out that this group favors repeal of DADT, 44-39. And the only subset of this group who oppose repeal are those who support the Tea Party: They are against repeal 38-48.

By the way, independents overall also strongly favor repeal, 62-23.

Over the weekend, Senator McCain, who used to be described as "independent" and "moderate" and a "maverick," said repeal of DADT is "working" and denounced the proposal as a "political promise made by an inexperienced candidate for President of the United States." Too bad independents and moderate Republicans disagree.

Read the rest of this post...